02/16/2011 - More information on counterfeit Petzl products
Counterfeit Petzl products are not a new phenomenon.
Over the years, Petzl has discovered counterfeits or copies of several of its products:
- counterfeit headlamps with the Petzl logo, including headlamps from the TIKKA and MYO lines
- counterfeit copies of Personal Protective Equipment (PPE) without the Petzl logo, such as ASCENSION handled ascenders, the ASAP, etc.
February 2011: This is the first time Petzl discovered identical-looking counterfeit PPE products with the Petzl logo.
The four products we found do not meet our safety requirements and are potentially dangerous.
Counterfeit references are:
| CROLL ascender (B16) | ATTACHE locking carabiner (M35 SL) | ASCENSION handled ascender (B17 R) – old, blue right-handed version | RESCUE pulley (P50) – old version |
 |
 |
 |
 |
To our knowledge, these are the only four Petzl products that we have found to be identical counterfeits. No other Petzl PPE products are concerned by identical counterfeits (with Petzl logo).
Attention :
- An end-user will not be able to tell the difference between these counterfeits and authentic Petzl products (see below for more information)
- They have serious quality, performance and safety problems.
For these reasons, Petzl decided to alert its end-users and begin legal action against the counterfeiters.
Petzl is fighting against counterfeiting
Over the past several years, Petzl has been fighting to stop the counterfeiting of our products. Our concern is for the safety and satisfaction of our end-users. These actions have enabled us to stop the illegal manufacture of our products.
How do you identify a genuine Petzl product?
Download the decision tree: Is my Petzl product authentic? (553 ko pdf file)
Download this decision tree in spanish
How do I make sure that I am purchasing an authentic Petzl product?
To ensure that you have purchased authentic Petzl products, be sure to shop at an authorized Petzl dealer (link). If you are in doubt, contact the distributor in your country. You can find their contact information with the Petzl dealer locator.
Remarks :
- Production of the old style blue right-handed ASCENSION ascender (B17 R) was stopped in 2009. The only version in production now is the ASCENSION B17 SRG, B17 WRA, B17 WRN:
- Production of the old version of RESCUE pulley (P50) was also stopped in 2009. The only version is production now is the RESCUE P50 A:
11/02/2011 - Petzl has recently discovered Chinese counterfeit versions of the following products:
These counterfeit products have serious defects that affect their performance and strength. For example:
There is a significant risk that these counterfeit products could open or otherwise fail at low loads and under normal use:
-
These counterfeit products do not meet UIAA or CE safety standards.
-
These counterfeit products do not meet Petzl safety and quality requirements.
It will be very difficult for you to identify these fakes:
They have been reproduced in a way that makes them very difficult to identify. The following features have been reproduced nearly identically:
- Design
- Color
- Product markings
- Batch number
- Instructions for use (down to the most minor details)
-
Packaging
Only an in-depth analysis allows us to identify these counterfeit products, due to minor differences in the tools used to produce them.
To date, only a few counterfeits have been found on the market, and thus far none in North America.
What can you do?
-
Only purchase from an authorized Petzl retailer to be sure that you are purchasing a genuine Petzl product.
- If you have any doubt as to the authenticity of Petzl products, please help us and contact Petzl America at info@petzl.com or (877) 807-3805. For a list of Petzl retailers, please visit:
- If the retailer from whom you purchased your equipment is not listed, please contact Petzl America at the email and phone number listed above.
Petzl is working hard to stop these counterfeits, which put users’ lives at risk, from reaching the market.
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Kommentare
Thanks for the heads up.
Sa, 12/02/2011 - 03:55 – Anonymous (nicht überprüft)What the hell is wrong with
Di, 15/02/2011 - 13:51 – Anonymous (nicht überprüft)Personally, I can't see what else they could have done. These aren't defects in authorised products, they're total counterfeits which had nothing to do with Petzl. Twerp.
production sites
Mi, 16/02/2011 - 11:14 – community_managerWe produce these 4 products in France and in the USA.
Sincerely
Which your products ARE made
Di, 01/11/2011 - 14:14 – hr (nicht überprüft)Thanks.
Re: Which your products ARE made
Fr, 04/11/2011 - 17:44 – PetzlPetzl production facility is composed of three sites in France and one site in Malaysia, all wholly owned and operated by Petzl. The aforementioned meets the same quality standards and workers' rights as our sites in France.
In terms of contract manufacturing, we work according to our quality standards: in Europe with exclusive partners, in China for the production of certain helmets and the purchase of specific supplies.
Is the counterfeit products (of China) exist in Indonesia?
Sa, 12/02/2011 - 11:51 – Unggul SUDRAJAT (nicht überprüft)Should we found the conterfeit products (of China) where to can we inform?
Thank you, this is a very serious crime to endanger the victims and the Rescuers.
Unggul SUDRAJAT.
Answer from Petzl
Mi, 16/02/2011 - 11:18 – community_managerShould you find couterfeit Petzl Product please inform our distributor in your country, ALLSPORTS EQUIPMENT, SINGAPORE, +65 6337 77 28,www.allsport.com.sg
Thank you for your support
Conterfeit products
Sa, 12/02/2011 - 18:54 – Max Goldoni (nicht überprüft)Thanks,
Max Goldoni
SSI Italian Speleological Society
A few more questions...
So, 13/02/2011 - 21:29 – Andy (nicht überprüft)I hope criminal prosecution comes out of this...
So, 13/02/2011 - 23:41 – Derek Tomes (nicht überprüft)But when lives are at stake, it's a whole new ballgame.
how about producing
Mo, 14/02/2011 - 10:44 – Anonymous (nicht überprüft)id be sorry to know that petzl also has become one of "those".....
Answer from Petzl
Mi, 16/02/2011 - 11:19 – community_managerWe produce these 4 products in France and in the USA.
Sincerely
presence of counterfeit versions of Petzl products
Mo, 14/02/2011 - 15:24 – Jorwin Velasquez (nicht überprüft)I have purchased many PETZL products through Amazon, and now I have doubts about the quality of products.
I don't believe this is the
Mo, 14/02/2011 - 18:23 – Sara Guiffre (nicht überprüft)because its cheaper
Di, 15/02/2011 - 20:48 – Jakob Roy (nicht überprüft)Answer from Petzl
Mi, 16/02/2011 - 11:20 – community_managerWe produce these 4 products in France and in the USA.
Sincerely
Presence of counterfeit versions
Mo, 14/02/2011 - 18:50 – PEtzl FAN (nicht überprüft)I think that,for a Company like Petzl, to move production in the Far-East is like failing the trust of all Petzl users.
Hope this lesson will make them come back to France !
Jorwin - let me get this
Mo, 14/02/2011 - 23:05 – Anonymous (nicht überprüft)Petzl has an incredible reputation for offering the highest quality products. Go to an authorized dealer to by your climbing equipment. It’s only your life…..
Coutnerfeits
Di, 15/02/2011 - 00:45 – A Gosnell (nicht überprüft)Serial #'s
Di, 15/02/2011 - 06:41 – Sharky (nicht überprüft)^^ Really? They go through
Do, 17/02/2011 - 03:05 – Anonymous (nicht überprüft)Is the "PETZL" brand
Di, 15/02/2011 - 07:35 – Anonymous (nicht überprüft)Is the "PETZL" brand
Di, 15/02/2011 - 21:54 – Anonymous (nicht überprüft)Of course. Do you think they would say "It will be very difficult for you to identify these fakes" if all you had to do was look for the name "Petzl" on them? What kind of counterfeit would they be without copying the most basic marking?
Answer from Petzl
Mi, 16/02/2011 - 11:24 – community_managerYes on these counterfeits there is the Petzl Logo, there are also numerous counterfeits without the Petzl Logo.
Thank you for your support
Sincerely
(I'm the caver who posted
Mi, 16/02/2011 - 17:37 – Anonymous (nicht überprüft)Dear Petzl,
THANK YOU for your reply. And I'd like to apologize on behalf of the individuals who posted stupid questions. To me (a Grotto chairman), Petzl has the HIGHEST reputation for quality. Did you see the rescue of the 33 Chilean miners? I certainly noticed that the PETZL brand name was all over the place (on harnesses, etc.)!
OF COURSE we will all purchase our products only from authorized Petzl dealers --those of us who care about our lives, our safety and not having to rescue others who do not.
Thank you again, Petzl, and keep up the great work!
-NSS caver
Tip of the Iceberg!
Di, 15/02/2011 - 09:57 – Sam (nicht überprüft)Don't be surprised if *none* of these Petzl products are made in China. Counterfeiting follows whichever products are popular for *any* given market, *regardless* of whether they are made locally OR overseas. i.e. Petzl doesn't have to be making products in China for counterfeits to appear.
As to where these sub-par products are being sold, a starting point might be:
www.taobao.com
Basically it's the Chinese equivalent of ebay (apart from shonky climbing gear, its actually a great website - especially for expat's living China..., like me)
Knock-offs galore, also, a large proportion of the products are obviously *off the back of the truck* - or more to be more specific - *out the back of the factory*
Re: BD, I understand that BD's factories in Zhuhai are *very tightly controlled* by BD itself - as opposed to signing contracts with random factories, that then might use the same/similar dies & tools to produce sub-standard *parallel* products.
Up till now, my impression of the situation has been that, foreign companies have been tolerating counterfeits, as long as they stayed in China (anyone who has visited China will testify to the bountiful pirate DVD & clothing markets).
Obviously, this is situation that couldn't last forever. Petzl should be commended for being (apparently) the first outdoor company to draw attention to this trend.
Want to avoid this problem? Petzl says it above: "Only purchase from an authorized Petzl retailer..." Also the general rule: "if you find a deal too good too be true, it probably is" applies as well...
I believe, in the coming decade, this will be the defining issue for the outdoor adventure products industry, especially as many companies have their sights set on expanding into the Chinese market.
sam
Petzl made in China?
Di, 15/02/2011 - 10:00 – Randy Wright (nicht überprüft)Answer from Petzl
Mi, 16/02/2011 - 11:25 – community_managerWe produce these 4 products in France and in the USA.
Sincerely
Conterfeit products
Di, 15/02/2011 - 13:06 – Anonymous (nicht überprüft)1º - the metal it's not so easy to copy
2º - the years of investigation of PETZL dont cheat.
kind regards
To the boneheads who blame
Mi, 16/02/2011 - 07:14 – Davo (nicht überprüft)1) You don't have to make stuff in China or even have a presence in China to have your brand & products counterfitted.
2) Having a component or product made in China or anywhere else is not necessarily bad. What matters is a brands R&D, QC, knowledge, experience, ethos, ethics, attention to detail, supervision of subcontractors, & certification of both the products & the processes. If you reject products simply because of origin you are a stupid or a racist.
3) None of you know seem to know what Petzl do or don't make in China. I don't know & I don't care. As long as Petzl make it that's good enough for me.
4) You are probably the same boneheads who bought the highly dodgy uncertified & sometimes even unbranded Eastern European stuff 15 years ago, & who even now buy crappy hardware-store shackels & biners for fixed anchors & express surprise when they bend under body weight.
5) You are probably the same hypocritical boneheads who sneer & snarl about being ripped off by businesses who operate in higher cost markets or haven't joined the race to the bottom & therefore ask for a reasonable price.
The real tragedy is that that because you are a boneheads you will probably survive accidents caused by your own stupidity long enough to spawn & further dilute the intelegence of the human race.
And no, I don't work for Petzl.
Re: answerfrom Petzl
Mi, 16/02/2011 - 12:31 – Anonymous (nicht überprüft)Pointing this out does not make you a 'twerp'. This isn't a case of corporate honesty, it's most likely corporate cost cutting coming back to bite Petzl in the arse, unless of course I'm wrong about any Chinese manufacturing of these items.
Production sites of the genuine Petzl products
Mi, 16/02/2011 - 15:55 – community_managerSorry if our first answer wasn't clear enough. These four products are exclusively produced by Petzl in France and USA, nowhere else.
Thank you for your interest.
"... they shouldn't be
Mi, 16/02/2011 - 19:15 – Sam (nicht überprüft)Incorrect, regardless of where it is manufactured, regardless of what it is, products will be counterfeited, period. (and not just in China)
I guarantee that you use other products made in China that have safety dependance: car parts, GPS, mobile products, phone products, medical products, drugs, tools - at some point in your life, your safety may depend on any one of these types of products... these other industries produce products to global standards, that operate quite safely.
Furthermore, your point is moot:
"...Sorry if our first answer wasn't clear enough. These four products are exclusively produced by Petzl in France and USA, nowhere else..."
sam
manufacturing in China
Do, 17/02/2011 - 11:52 – peterxyz (nicht überprüft)It is an issue of them producing popular, quality products which makes them attractive for counterfitting - adding serial numbers is unlikely to a perfect fix - since these are obviously made in a proper factory which could simply mirror this.
If you have an objection to critical products being made in China, I suggest that the first people you should knock on the door of would be Boeing
And thanks to the community manager for your patience in setting the record straight repeatedly :)
Peter
thanks
Mi, 16/02/2011 - 21:17 – thanks (nicht überprüft)But when it is climbing gear it is a whole different story. Pretty simple that if you find a deal that is to good to be true, then it probably is!
YOU GUYS SHOULD PUT SOME VIDEOS OUT SHOWING THE TWO PRODUCTS AND WHAT CAN GO WRONG WITH THE BAD ONES.
What do we do if we suspect we might have counterfeit products?
Do, 17/02/2011 - 03:24 – Anonymous (nicht überprüft)Answer from Petzl
Do, 17/02/2011 - 15:53 – community_managerAs this is an extremely serious issue be sure that we are actively preparing more informations concerning the identification of counterfeits. We will of course inform all our customers, retailers and distributors. In the meanwhile check with the distributor of your country that you have purchased products through an official dealer. http://www.petzl.com/en/page/petzl-distributors-world-1
Thank you for your interest
possible way of preventing it?
Do, 17/02/2011 - 09:44 – henry (nicht überprüft)Thanks Petzl!
Do, 17/02/2011 - 10:16 – Mik (nicht überprüft)your products are still coveted & I hope your lawyers manage to nail the bastards who did this!!
other ideas to stop this
Do, 17/02/2011 - 10:54 – Mr. T.J. (nicht überprüft)- Put a unique, non-continual numbering serial number INSIDE the packing of the product in a way that it is not possible until the product is purchased and the packing is obviously opened. Then this number could be entered on Petzl' homepage and verified whether it is genuine or not.
- Put some hard-to-reproduce holographic watermark on the product / packing of the product.
Regards, Mr. T.J.
Don't have to re-invent the
Do, 17/02/2011 - 18:02 – Anonymous (nicht überprüft)counterfeits
Do, 17/02/2011 - 18:13 – pbearcat (nicht überprüft)Climb on!
How long have these been about.
Do, 17/02/2011 - 18:24 – DHL (nicht überprüft)I'm appalled
Fr, 18/02/2011 - 00:04 – James (nicht überprüft)fake gear
Fr, 18/02/2011 - 01:04 – chris quinn (nicht überprüft)buy from the back of the petzl factory
Fr, 18/02/2011 - 02:20 – Anonymous (nicht überprüft)if you read above it does
Fr, 18/02/2011 - 12:42 – Anonymous (nicht überprüft)there are differences in the tooling used for the fakes
Di, 22/02/2011 - 22:27 – Anonymous (nicht überprüft)why is Petzl hiding this info.
Sa, 19/02/2011 - 23:11 – Russ (nicht überprüft)People could get hurt if this information is not released immediately. And Petzl should be responsible for not releasing this information in a timely manner. This should be treated just as if it was a recall. In fact if it was a recall, they'd have nice little close ups of the problems at hand, not some fuzzy pics that don't show squat!
WTF are they hiding???
So, 20/02/2011 - 20:34 – Anonymous (nicht überprüft)There are no cosmetic/visible differences. The differences are in the chemical makeup of the metal, causing a lower failure point. No image is going to show the molecular structure of the material.
Next time, don't buy climbing gear on the cheap. If you bought all your gear from an authorized distributor, you wouldn't have to worry.
and
Di, 22/02/2011 - 22:39 – Anonymous (nicht überprüft)counterfeit versions of Petzl
So, 20/02/2011 - 14:48 – Just another caver (nicht überprüft)Keep punching and tempering all those necessary toys for us. No one wants to experience one of the fakes at any height......;(
Great Information
Di, 22/02/2011 - 00:03 – Anonymous (nicht überprüft)Unique serial number with online verification
Di, 22/02/2011 - 02:06 – Alex (nicht überprüft)Quick suggestion.
Unique serial number on each piece that can only be verified over the internet. The Peltz webpage would show another serial number (which should match another number in the piece) and an image of the artifact.
I know it sounds complicated, but it isn't. It can also be a great marketing tool.
Good luck!
Alex
counterfeit / original
Do, 24/02/2011 - 14:40 – Anonymous (nicht überprüft)2. If Petzl was able to "see the differences" before accidents happend, it means there are things anyone can see/verify (and the users should be notified about it).
3. Bad quality, life threatening, "identical looking", safety equipment...yes, it seams too much bother for some dollars (these products are not so expansive)... so the conspiracy theorists have something to chew...
4. Holographic stickers with a serial number/date/place of production, with different image from batch to batch should make the copying more difficult. Or, considering the "attemptive murder" in case of equipment fail, a special paint with embedded special markers should make the difference (at least legally, for the company).
Petzl "Honesty" is that they
Do, 24/02/2011 - 22:14 – Anonymous (nicht überprüft)For all we know petzl may have circulate defective product just to call all your gear into question to sell more product or at least spread the story.
Just weight your gear aggressively and look for expressive flex or bending, don't waist your time or money. Buy some of their stock and dump it after they announce their earning from this.
It sell insurance
Do, 24/02/2011 - 22:49 – Anonymous (nicht überprüft)Scare tactics.
All I am sure of is they are filtering posts.
Digital certificate
Sa, 26/02/2011 - 11:36 – Smajser (nicht überprüft)I`m working with computer networks for years, and the cure to this illness is so simple.
Just generate a DIGITAL CERTIFICATE, burn them on some cd/dvd, put it in the box, and when someone buys your product he can be 100000% sure that it is original.
If that is too complicated then you can add card reader and card with digital certificate on it. And the best is that it wont cost you more than 5$. Also I believe that no one on this thread, or who is in this type of activity would mind giving 5$ more to be sure of what they are buying.
btw, I have just planned to buy some speleological gear, but now ....
I guess i`ll just wait
Best regards
Smajser
Get me the load wieghts please.
Mo, 28/02/2011 - 01:44 – A Gosnell (nicht überprüft)Oh and here are a few thoughts for stuff that won't work.
a: Unique ID numbers can never be unique, they can be copied. Even if you run a GUID and verify it online. If I buy the fake and you buy the original. I verify it on-line before you does that make mine original or yours. Just because you make it harder to do something does not mean that it won't someone wont knock it off. Money dictates what level of detail someone will go through to make knock offs.
b: Holographic stickers with a serial number/date/place of production can't guarantee work if someone wants to hack/crack the number algorithm that Petzl uses.
c: Unique paint is also not Unique. With the color identifying software that anyone can get a hold of it is very easy to duplicate paint.
d: Just because you buy it on ebay does not make it fake.
Attache SL Spine Markings
Mo, 28/02/2011 - 15:09 – Anonymous (nicht überprüft)Answer
Mi, 09/03/2011 - 18:47 – community_managerThe spine markings on Attache SL carabiners changed in 2006.
To know the product’s manufacturing year, you need to read the individual number marked on each product as follow:
09365AB1234
09: correspond to the year
365: correspond to the day
AB: correspond to the person that checked and controlled the product
1234: is the serial number of the product
In the past, some of the product were not graved with an individual number and were marked this way:
99289A :Year of manufacturing 1999
Day 289
A correspond to the person that checked
You will also find some more information on the Petzl web site where you can download all technical notices.
All the best
Attache SL Spine Markings
Do, 03/03/2011 - 23:10 – Anonymous (nicht überprüft)I'm just worried now that
Fr, 11/03/2011 - 04:19 – kangaroo (nicht überprüft)Further step to take
Mo, 14/03/2011 - 01:59 – William D. Peachey (nicht überprüft)Second, after notification of this by a friend, I have, in turn, fulfilled part of my own responsibility by notifying others of my caving and outdoors friends by forwarding them the link to your company for the information concerning this problem that has appeared in "our" community.
But, third, and possibly just as important in the long run, is to spread the word that we ALL need to continue to support a longtime & reliable manufacturer of equipment that we have always been able to rely upon with our continued economic "votes" of support by continuing to "Buy( bonified ) Petzl Equipment!
Bill Peachey - Tucson, Arizona, U.S.A.
( Petzl, I give you my unqualified permission to use this "comment" in any way that may help your cause! )
OMG!! my story ...
Do, 28/04/2011 - 01:14 – afshin (nicht überprüft)I am going to hate china forever....:(
thanks for the heads up PETZL!
I was going to purchase the pulley: RESCUE P50 a few days ago from an unofficial dealer!! but thanks to this announcement I didn't do that mistake ....
however I bought a bunch of other climbing equipment(Harness: CORAX 2, and REVERSO3) from that dealer ....
Hope they are not fake!!
despite the long distance (300Km), I am going to buy the rest of my stuff from the authorized dealer of PETZL....
The solution is cheap
Di, 21/06/2011 - 04:41 – Ball (nicht überprüft)The solution is a hash or signed hash. You can't fake it and all it will cost you is a few CPU cycles per product. In other words nothing.
Welcome to the internet age, Petzl. I know it was slower coming for you guys, being from France and all (sorry about your Minitel), but there is no excuse. Either serialize your products or watch as more fakes show up and devalue your brand name.
Quite frankly I don't see why this shouldn't be done for all UIEE/CE certified gear. It's like we're in the stone age
(and your verification CAPTCHA is easily thwarted, too)
Origin
Mi, 22/06/2011 - 13:52 – Eric (nicht überprüft)In my case, if the equipment is manufactured outside Europe or USA, or if it does not say, I do not buy ...
Suspected counterfeit
Do, 26/01/2012 - 02:16 – Anonymous (nicht überprüft)I hope to be wrong about !
Counterfeit products
Fr, 23/03/2012 - 12:26 – PetzlHello. Sorry for the late repley. Thanks a lot for you help and your feedbacks. We advise you to look at our tree decisions located on http://www.petzl.com/files/fckfiles/file/info-generale/petzl-product-authentification.pdf. It will help you to detect counterfeits versions of PETZL products. You can also contact our distributor in Brazil with the contact below. Thanks for your confident in PETZL.
Spelaion
Rua General Góes Monteiro
389 Jardim Elite
13417-381, Piracicaba
Brazil
+55 (19) 34115605
spelaionbrasil@gmail.com
China
Mo, 16/04/2012 - 11:11 – Michael Urban (nicht überprüft)I want to know WHY - a country that first put a man on the moon, is the leader in military weaponry, aircraft and NASA - NEEDS to resort to foreign manufacturing to have these products made? Don't we make ANYTHING here in the USA any longer? Even Black Diamond has sold out to the foreign market as well? What in heck is wrong with American's these days? Then we wonder WHY we have 10% unemployment in this country and it's getting worse and jobs continue to be lost HERE! Keep buying foreign made products people!
And the ad part IS - one would be hard pressed to find climbing gear still manufactured HERE in the USA still!
How sad...
Rescue P50 A
Di, 18/12/2012 - 19:11 – Seth Urquhart (nicht überprüft)It's just as easy to have this problem with counterfeiters in the USA, it's not just in foreign countries where we have these problems.
Thanks Petzl for taking the responsibility to inform those who may be in harms way because of the counterfeiters.
Re Rescue P50 A
Mi, 19/12/2012 - 12:34 – community_managerThe P50 product has changed :
http://www.petzl.com/en/pro/verticality/pulleys/high-efficiency-pulleys/...
Sincerely
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